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Kitt

I had a dream about this last night, I swear. It's probably because I simply DO NOT understand WHY the hate. I don't get at all the simple obsession with who the f*ck marries who, who does what or who believes what. Simply put they cannot be followers of Christ (their Jesus Christ) while maintaining that someone is not worthy of respect or love and being treated as such.

And WHAT! is the preoccupation with the Old Testament and it's tenets. The "sacrifice" of that same Jesus Christ above brings forth a new paradigm, a new kingdom in which there are two - count 'em, two! new commandments (found in the New Testament in the gospels).

["The subtle hate that is insidiously perpetrated through not feeling safe in your home, place of business or community is just as concrete and destructive as any physical abuse that one could endure and Mr. Mansfield your ignorance of that fact and the not-so-subtle manner in which you suggest that this is something gay people have just imagined, is perpetuating and exacerbating the hate."]

Say IT, SISTER!

ws

Dennis

Thanks for your input. I experience your comments as sincere and deeply felt.

What you missed in my blog posting at www.dennismansfield.com, I believe, is my comparison with Brigitte Gabriel's book, "Because they Hate"....which deals with a family living in a bomb shelter in the Middle East, being pursued by Islamofascists...to kill them.

The comparison was truly impactful to me, as I am in the middle of that book and then saw the coverage of the rallies.

Hate? Hmmm...all the minorities in CA who supported the Yes on 8 movement? I think they have more-than-real reasons to REALLY understand bigotry and hatred, don't they? Yet they voted for Prop 8.

I do believe that gays have many people who view them as less than who God made them to be, as individuals, regardless of sexual orientation...and people who feel that way toward gays often feel deep hatred to many others, as well ; usually themselves too, if the truth were REALLY known.

Here's all I really know: we are valuable to God...all of us. His son died for everyone who wakes up and sees what happened so long ago...and yet that truth remains fresher than today's news. He loves us so much and he created us to love one another. Hatred has no place in our lives towards people we do not agree with or understand. He alone sets the standards. It is our choice as to whether we ignore those standards to love him, and therefore to love or hate others. I choose love.


Dennis

Sisyphus

Yet you perpetuate all the trappings of hate. Your metamorphosis into a "progressive conservative" seems deeply flawed to me Dennis. Can't figure the penchant y'all have for misleading and often pejorative labels, like Islamofascist.

"Hate? Hmmm...all the minorities in CA who supported the Yes on 8 movement? I think they have more-than-real reasons to REALLY understand bigotry and hatred, don't they? Yet they voted for Prop 8."--talk about your moral relativism. Dennis this is based upon a myth that was perpetrated by not so deep thinkers in the trad med and spread by the same like yourself. Click my name for a post that debunks the myth.

MountainGoat

Dennis, I appreciate that you took the time to comment on this issue here, but I have to say that I didn't miss your point. I got your attempt to contrast the "real" hate endured by the woman in your example to the "supposed" hate (as you imply it to be), that gay Idahoans protesting against prop 8 feel. And while I appreciate your transformation of sorts (many have not forgotten your work in the early 90s with the Idaho Citizen's Alliance, the first real organized anti-gay rights group in this state) and I don't doubt your sincerity that you now "choose love," I'm afraid that you have missed my point.

The fear and hate endured by gay Idahoans is just as real and concrete and even life threatening as that endured by the woman in your example. The, in many instances, subtlety of it makes it no less so and the absolute reality of it in some cases doesn't either. What happened to Matthew Shepard 10 years ago could just as easily happen in any small town in Idaho today and I challenge anyone to deliver a more concrete example of "real" hate. Oftentimes, due to socialization, the marginalization of gay people and even indoctrination, religious and otherwise, that one's sexual orientation can somehow be changed, the "enemy" becomes our own minds, turning on ourselves in the form of self-loathing, self-hatred and for some even suicide. Having to fight for rights that are inalienable to others adds to the psychological damage, and when those rights are determined to be up to a "public policy debate" as you wrote in your post, even more so. What you claim to be a fair decision of public policy by the majority, are what courts have determined to be fundamental rights, and minimizing the effects of that or the reality of the hate that this implies is just as destructive.

When you in one breath say that all are "valuable to God" yet in another imply that their rights are up to the vote of a majority as you did in your post, that, whether you like the label or not, feels very much like hate.

Wordsmith

Still waiting for more clarification from Dennis......

Like you say here: "When you in one breath say that all are "valuable to God" yet in another imply that their rights are up to the vote of a majority as you did in your post, that, whether you like the label or not, feels very much like hate."

It's because it is hate, MG. Just because they don't identify it as hate but defined instead as some 'moral prerogative' doesn't mean it's any less hateful. It isn't. The smoke screen of 'their moral compass' is simply a justification to continue their contractured beliefs, especially those regarding the gospel of Christ.

MountainGoat

Yeah Wordsmith, seems we're *still* waiting on Dennis....

Never ceases to amaze me how some can use religion to justify hate.

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Quotes For 2010

  • "The main thing is to keep everybody going down that road as we try to find the answers and solutions to all these problems. It'll be fun! We'll get it done." — Majority Leader Mike Moyle (R-Star) when asked in an Idaho Reports broadcast how the State House will handle making tough budget decisions this year, 1.29.10.

Quotes For 2009

  • "[Some politicians] wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it fell in their laps and called them Daddy." — Rep. Lenore Hardy Barrett (R-Challis) at a tea party tax protest.
  • "Just, you know, putting beans on the table." — former Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) when asked by Nate Shelman (670 KBOI) what he's doing these days.
  • "I said yesterday we hope and pray things will get better before they get worse. It's obvious to me some of you need to do a better job of praying." — Sen. Dean Cameron (R-Rupert), Joint Finance-Appropriation Committee co-chair on the grim economic forecast facing the committee.
  • “We’ve been called a lot of things but we’ve never been called sneaks before.” — Rep. Maxine Bell (R-Jerome) in a budget dispute with the governor's staff over legislators' computer funding.
  • "I’m not wearing rose-tinted glasses. But I am a glass-half-full kind of guy." — Gov. C. L. "Butch" Otter attempting to remain optimistic while delivering tough economic news in his State of the State/Budget message.

Quotes For 2008

  • "I am not ashamed that we use a lot of energy in this country. It has made us the most prosperous Nation on the face of the planet. ... Using energy makes us prosperous." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) during debate on an energy bill that, among other things, invested in alternative and renewable energy sources and repealed tax subsidies for large oil companies. (H.R.6899)
  • "If [Oversight Committee Chairman] Henry Waxman was interested in doing more than just showboat, we'd be there in a heartbeat. It's political grandstanding." — spokesman Wayne Hoffman explaining why Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) was absent from congressional oversight hearings into the financial crisis where, among other things, it was learned that AIG executives indulged in a lavish retreat a week after the bailout.
  • "You know what, campaigns are fast and furious, I accept responsibility that we don't have the right citation there, but the facts I stand by - we are correct about that." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) reacting to a campaign commercial fact-checking report.
  • "There are people out there without health care, and we need to address that, but it's not as big of a problem as some people would make it out to be" — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) in a Lewiston, ID debate
  • "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." — President Bill Clinton in a speech at the 2008 DNC
  • "To my supporters, to my champions, to my sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits, from the bottom of my heart, thank you." — Senator Hillary Clinton in a speech at the 2008 DNC
  • "The America that we know, that the founding fathers envisioned, will cease to exist." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) speaking at the state GOP convention about the possibility of a Democratically controlled White House and Congress.
  • "Sometimes the problems have to get larger before you can solve them. We can still drive around the potholes, so they must not be big enough." — House Speaker Lawerence Denney (R-Midvale), explaining that lawmakers still need to be convinced about the extent of road maintenance problems before they'll agree to tax or fee increases.
  • "Those people that believe in shooting animals through the fences . . . ought to turn the rifle the other way." — Former Governor Cecil Andrus, at sportsmen's rally, decked out in full camouflage, urging opposition to "shooter bull" operations on domestic elk farms.
  • "GARVEE is like swallowing a raw egg - it seems to be one of those things that's really hard to stop in the middle of." — Rep. Marv Hagedorn (R-Meridian), in comments on a package of transportation bills introduced by House GOP leaders at an emergency committee meeting.
  • "I'm a professional dairyman. I have milked and milked everything I can possibly milk." — State Police Maj. Ralph Powell, arguing that the state crime lab's bare-bones operation has reached its limit and now costs the state money as testing is sent to private labs.
  • "Idaho is ranked last in the nation in protecting the safety of children in day care centers." — Sen. Kate Kelly (D-Boise), in support of an unsuccessful move by Senate Democrats to force a daycare standards bill out of committee.
  • "This [anti-discrimination bill] is something we will propose every year until it passes." — Rep. Nicole LeFavour (D-Boise), responding to the latest BSU Public Policy survey in which 63 percent of Idahoans think it ought to be illegal to fire someone for being gay or seeming to be gay.
  • "I assumed it would be a bunch of radical college students, so to fit the part, I grew a goatee, got a revolutionary T-shirt and put on some ratty jeans." — Rep. Curtis Bowers (R-Caldwell) in an Idaho Press-Tribune opinion explaining how he disguised himself to uncover alleged communist plots.

Quotes For 2007

  • "Divorce is just terrible. It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America." — Rep. Dick Harwood (R-St. Maries) describing the work of the Idaho Legislature's Family Task Force.
  • "I am not gay; I never have been gay." Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) in a statement responding to news of his arrest and subsequent guilty plea to disorderly conduct after an incident in an airport men's room.
  • “Most of the hospitals in this country have Christian names. If you think Hindu prayer is great, where are the Hindu hospitals in this country? Go down the list. Where are the atheist hospitals in this country? They’re not equal.” — Rep. Bill Sali (R-ID-01) to the Idaho Press-Tribune editorial board in response to criticism of his views regarding Hindu prayer in the Senate.
  • "We are all Nintendo warriors today. Remember that game, that electronic game, a few years ago, push buttons zim, zam, boom and it was all over with? That is not the way you fight war, although we as a society have grown to believe that." — Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) during debate on an amendment to a bill providing for defense authorization.
  • "While we are Democrats and Republicans, in our hearts we are all Idahoans." — Sen. Clint Stennett (D-Ketchum), reaching out to Republicans while outlining the Democratic agenda for the 2007 legislative session.
  • "One of the hardest things we've had to do here is taking off our party hats." — Rep. Marv Hagedorn (R-Meridian) on a proposal to restrict Idaho's primary elections.
  • "This is outrageous. The people of Idaho are entitled to have their representatives base their votes on the merits of a bill, not on who backed the loser in a speaker's contest." — Former GOP Gov. Phil Batt responding to accusations of political retribution taken by House Speaker Denney (R-Midvale) on other members.
  • “There was one of those six projects that was removed altogether. Why? Because the senator and the representatives from that district were from the wrong political party. We need to take a step back" — Sen. Dean Cameron (R-Rupert) to the Senate when debating the GARVEE bill.
  • "I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself." — Gov. Butch Otter, speaking to a hunters' rally at the Statehouse.
  • "To get a kick out of smoking industrial hemp, it would take a cigar the size of a telephone pole." — Rep. Tom Trail (R-Moscow), downplaying the relation between hemp and its cousin marijuana
  • "I guess I would just make a plea saying we need the money. You know we need the money on roads." — Rep. JoAn Wood (R-Rigby), on proposed bill to collect gas tax from sales on Indian reservations.
  • "No one wants to carry the canoe bill." — Rep. Eric Anderson (R-Priest River), agreeing with Gov. Otter that non-motorized boats should also pay registration fees, but noting any such proposal will be a tough sell.
  • "I don't think we should let the threat of a lawsuit force us to implement something that's not well thought out." — Abbie Mace, Fremont County Clerk, testifying against a "modified-closed primary" bill being pushed by GOP leaders.
  • "There's a lot of things that I pointed out in my State of the State (address) that haven't passed. Unfortunately, I can't think of one that has." — Gov. Butch Otter, addressing reporters on the legislative session so far.
  • "I say let's have a hearing and take our clothes off and go after it." — Rep. Jim Clark, R-Hayden Lake, trying to get lawmakers to print his bill.
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