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Tara A. Rowe

FINALLY!! It's not only nice to no longer be the only blogger publicly supporting Hillary, but a wonderful feeling to be in your company as well as the company of Bethine Church.

Wordsmith

Can I just say, I'm STILL conflicted.

IdahoRocks

I don't have anything against Hillary, and I'm sure she would be a good enough president. As an Idahoan, I do resent that she came here for money for her senatorial campaign, but won't even set up offices for her presidential campaign. That's not quite enough to push me over to Obama. The fact that really pushes me over the edge towards Obama (besides other less emotional arguments) is Obama's ability to bring out the youth vote. I haven't seen that since I was a high school student in the '60s. The other day I read about a 38 yr. old that never had a chance to vote for anyone but a Bush or a Clinton for president. I find that tragic. I think our country has become stagnant. Bush has been a nightmare, but the Clintons didn't do us any great favors with their own take on the US approach to globalization. The youth are our future. If we don't get them involved for the first time in four generations since the sixties, we have not prepared our country for the future. We've probably just sold it to the highest bidder....

MountainGoat

Well, I do applaud Obama's ability to attract young people and newcomers but if I was going to make an intellectual, well-reasoned argument for Hillary I'd include these points:

1) Seven years ago the country ostensibly elected an outsider to change Washington and bring the country together (I'm a uniter not a divider) and we ended up with W. He certainly did change Washington, but in ways many couldn't have imagined. Never will I compare Obama to Bush, in fact I'll enthusiastically support him if he's the nominee, but at times there is something to be said for experience and I believe that this is one of those times.

2) Many who warn of the divisiveness of Clinton, would have eagerly supported Al Gore had he chosen to enter the race. No one would argue that Gore would have been any less divisive than Hillary. That argument seems just a little too convenient and overplayed.

3) Donnie McClurkin

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/donnie-mcclurkin-and-perf_b_69772.html

Sisyphus

Good on you MG. You're principled and I respect that. I also lament the negative branding the Clintons have received as being beyond what's deserved. Alas it is what it is.

Alan

If I read your post correctly, you're voting for Hillary because she's female.

dude

I cannot in good faith support Hillary as she voted to authorize Iraq and has demonstrated the same leadership on Iran.

I will vote Obama because he wants to eradicate the type of thinking that got us into Iraq, and more importantly because he asks each one of us to reach higher and to do our part in holding our elected officials accountable.

Akitagod

I think I'd be OK with either of them winning the general election, but at this point, its not about what I would like. This is about picking who can carry a clear and decisive victory in November -- something our country desperately needs. I have serious concerns over whether we can survive another Florida or Ohio.
In western states like Idaho, the argument that Clinton would polarize independent voters and swing them to the right is legitimate. For the record, I would say the same for Al Gore if he were in the running.
And since this is something of a "from the gut" discussion, I think that being led by people from only two political families for almost two decades is a huge red flag concerning our political well-being. Especially if you factor in Jeb Bush running in 2012, etc.. . .
Seriously. CHANGE.

MountainGoat

I hear you Akitagod. As I said, this really is more of an emotional decision rather than an intellectual one...and yes, I'm willing to admit it.

Alan, the fact that she's a woman is a bonus.

dude, I made peace with her vote a while ago and understand why it was made but I respect those who can't. I do have to say that the rhetoric implying that she would have the same mindset as the neocons who began this war is simply misleading.

Mark

OMG another Bush in '12????? I will move out of the country if he gets elected. After 12 years of Bush family mismanagement, it would be nice if the American people would put them where they belong, right next to the communist russians on the ashheap of history.

Kitt

{"I will vote Obama because he wants to eradicate the type of thinking that got us into Iraq, and more importantly because he asks each one of us to reach higher and to do our part in holding our elected officials accountable."}

Indeed...while admirable, this is going to take a good while longer than the next president's tenure, which I'm hoping will be limited to 4 years - period. If they do well, then another democratic or similar-minded president will be elected.

As for holding them accountable... WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? Some have been holding 'them' accountable while others poo-pooed the idea. This isn't something Mr. Obama suddenly thought up or has been doing all on his own, now. There have been plenty others who have been working to eradicate this type of thinking, some of whom are in Congress currently.

Julie in Boise

MG, Bethine, Tara .. three women I admire, three women who will support Hillary Clinton tonight. That's fine. I won't try to change your minds.

I will note, however, that a huge group of New York feminist women yesterday announced their support for Obama, a week after the New York chapter of NOW criticized Teddy Kennedy for his Obama endorsement. Obama's foreign policy positions and early opposition to the war were the decisive factors for them. One paragraph from their manifesto:

"Choosing to support Senator Obama was not an easy decision for us because electing a woman President would be a cause for celebration in itself and because we deplore the sexist attacks against Senator Clinton that have circulated in the media. However, we also recognize that the election of Barack Obama would be another historic achievement and that his support for gender equality has been unwavering."

Click my name to read the rest of it.

As I wrote somewhere else, if I was in my 80s like Bethine, I'd consider a vote for Clinton today just to be sure I'd see a woman president in my lifetime. But those of us half or a quarter of her age WILL see a woman as president. We can wait another few years to achieve this, especially if it means scoring the decisive landslide we'd see with Obama rather that the still-divided electorate we'd likely see with Clinton.

Julie in Boise

Ooops, here's the link to the NY Feminists for Peace and Barack Obama

dude

MG - I fully and completely respect your decision to support Hillary and my intention is not to change your mind. We've all got make our own decisions.

But I must follow-up on your response. In my post I did not imply that she was of the same mindset as the neocons. I do refer to her Iraq vote to authorize the war in Iraq and her subsequent "Iran-creep" vote. In regards to Iraq, she voted to authorize the war and that vote only served to enable the neocon agenda. Her subsequent wobbly and evolving position on the war, not only failed to provide a clear leadership alternative, but continued to enable the Bush Administration and the neocons. (for more see todays piece on Hillary's evolving positions on the war: Spencer Ackerman has a great piece laying out Hillary Clinton's evolving views of Iraq over the years: http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/clinton-maneuvers).

Kitt - I did not imply Obama invented the idea of accountability.

Kitt

dude,

I don't think I said or even 'implied' you implied "Obama invented the idea of accountability." I was referring to this: "and more importantly because he asks each one of us to reach higher and to do our part in holding our elected officials accountable."

Yes - that is tremendous thing; it's also what many, many have been doing thruout this administration from bloggers to journalists to legislators to common folk. Against, I might add, the 'flow of the current.'

dude

Kitt -

To clarify: my intention was not to imply that Obama invented it, or is merely the only one fighting for accountability.

My feelings are quite the opposite, I see Obama as leading the charge in this election for the larger accountability movement comprised of bloggers, journalists, legislators, and citizens.

From my vantage, he's the only one running for the nomination that's doing it, particularly on the angle that "we" (normal citizens) can drive the process.

Others may see it differently and I support and respect them reaching alternative conclusions.


Kitt

dude,

I totally understand. Please - I think we're agreeing more than we think or it may appear.

My point is there have been people holding others accountable. You think it's Obama leading the charge; I think it is (was)Edwards and, certainly, Kucinich, as well as Mike Gravel, Bill Richardson, and Chris Dodd - especially with and on FISA.

dude

Sounds like we agree, Kitt. And with Edwards, Dodd, Richardson, and Kucinich out, for me that leaves Obama.

*apologies to MG for cluttering your endorsement thread*

MountainGoat

not necessary...love the participation!

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Quotes For 2010

  • "The main thing is to keep everybody going down that road as we try to find the answers and solutions to all these problems. It'll be fun! We'll get it done." — Majority Leader Mike Moyle (R-Star) when asked in an Idaho Reports broadcast how the State House will handle making tough budget decisions this year, 1.29.10.

Quotes For 2009

  • "[Some politicians] wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it fell in their laps and called them Daddy." — Rep. Lenore Hardy Barrett (R-Challis) at a tea party tax protest.
  • "Just, you know, putting beans on the table." — former Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) when asked by Nate Shelman (670 KBOI) what he's doing these days.
  • "I said yesterday we hope and pray things will get better before they get worse. It's obvious to me some of you need to do a better job of praying." — Sen. Dean Cameron (R-Rupert), Joint Finance-Appropriation Committee co-chair on the grim economic forecast facing the committee.
  • “We’ve been called a lot of things but we’ve never been called sneaks before.” — Rep. Maxine Bell (R-Jerome) in a budget dispute with the governor's staff over legislators' computer funding.
  • "I’m not wearing rose-tinted glasses. But I am a glass-half-full kind of guy." — Gov. C. L. "Butch" Otter attempting to remain optimistic while delivering tough economic news in his State of the State/Budget message.

Quotes For 2008

  • "I am not ashamed that we use a lot of energy in this country. It has made us the most prosperous Nation on the face of the planet. ... Using energy makes us prosperous." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) during debate on an energy bill that, among other things, invested in alternative and renewable energy sources and repealed tax subsidies for large oil companies. (H.R.6899)
  • "If [Oversight Committee Chairman] Henry Waxman was interested in doing more than just showboat, we'd be there in a heartbeat. It's political grandstanding." — spokesman Wayne Hoffman explaining why Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) was absent from congressional oversight hearings into the financial crisis where, among other things, it was learned that AIG executives indulged in a lavish retreat a week after the bailout.
  • "You know what, campaigns are fast and furious, I accept responsibility that we don't have the right citation there, but the facts I stand by - we are correct about that." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) reacting to a campaign commercial fact-checking report.
  • "There are people out there without health care, and we need to address that, but it's not as big of a problem as some people would make it out to be" — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) in a Lewiston, ID debate
  • "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." — President Bill Clinton in a speech at the 2008 DNC
  • "To my supporters, to my champions, to my sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits, from the bottom of my heart, thank you." — Senator Hillary Clinton in a speech at the 2008 DNC
  • "The America that we know, that the founding fathers envisioned, will cease to exist." — Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID-01) speaking at the state GOP convention about the possibility of a Democratically controlled White House and Congress.
  • "Sometimes the problems have to get larger before you can solve them. We can still drive around the potholes, so they must not be big enough." — House Speaker Lawerence Denney (R-Midvale), explaining that lawmakers still need to be convinced about the extent of road maintenance problems before they'll agree to tax or fee increases.
  • "Those people that believe in shooting animals through the fences . . . ought to turn the rifle the other way." — Former Governor Cecil Andrus, at sportsmen's rally, decked out in full camouflage, urging opposition to "shooter bull" operations on domestic elk farms.
  • "GARVEE is like swallowing a raw egg - it seems to be one of those things that's really hard to stop in the middle of." — Rep. Marv Hagedorn (R-Meridian), in comments on a package of transportation bills introduced by House GOP leaders at an emergency committee meeting.
  • "I'm a professional dairyman. I have milked and milked everything I can possibly milk." — State Police Maj. Ralph Powell, arguing that the state crime lab's bare-bones operation has reached its limit and now costs the state money as testing is sent to private labs.
  • "Idaho is ranked last in the nation in protecting the safety of children in day care centers." — Sen. Kate Kelly (D-Boise), in support of an unsuccessful move by Senate Democrats to force a daycare standards bill out of committee.
  • "This [anti-discrimination bill] is something we will propose every year until it passes." — Rep. Nicole LeFavour (D-Boise), responding to the latest BSU Public Policy survey in which 63 percent of Idahoans think it ought to be illegal to fire someone for being gay or seeming to be gay.
  • "I assumed it would be a bunch of radical college students, so to fit the part, I grew a goatee, got a revolutionary T-shirt and put on some ratty jeans." — Rep. Curtis Bowers (R-Caldwell) in an Idaho Press-Tribune opinion explaining how he disguised himself to uncover alleged communist plots.

Quotes For 2007

  • "Divorce is just terrible. It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America." — Rep. Dick Harwood (R-St. Maries) describing the work of the Idaho Legislature's Family Task Force.
  • "I am not gay; I never have been gay." Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) in a statement responding to news of his arrest and subsequent guilty plea to disorderly conduct after an incident in an airport men's room.
  • “Most of the hospitals in this country have Christian names. If you think Hindu prayer is great, where are the Hindu hospitals in this country? Go down the list. Where are the atheist hospitals in this country? They’re not equal.” — Rep. Bill Sali (R-ID-01) to the Idaho Press-Tribune editorial board in response to criticism of his views regarding Hindu prayer in the Senate.
  • "We are all Nintendo warriors today. Remember that game, that electronic game, a few years ago, push buttons zim, zam, boom and it was all over with? That is not the way you fight war, although we as a society have grown to believe that." — Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) during debate on an amendment to a bill providing for defense authorization.
  • "While we are Democrats and Republicans, in our hearts we are all Idahoans." — Sen. Clint Stennett (D-Ketchum), reaching out to Republicans while outlining the Democratic agenda for the 2007 legislative session.
  • "One of the hardest things we've had to do here is taking off our party hats." — Rep. Marv Hagedorn (R-Meridian) on a proposal to restrict Idaho's primary elections.
  • "This is outrageous. The people of Idaho are entitled to have their representatives base their votes on the merits of a bill, not on who backed the loser in a speaker's contest." — Former GOP Gov. Phil Batt responding to accusations of political retribution taken by House Speaker Denney (R-Midvale) on other members.
  • “There was one of those six projects that was removed altogether. Why? Because the senator and the representatives from that district were from the wrong political party. We need to take a step back" — Sen. Dean Cameron (R-Rupert) to the Senate when debating the GARVEE bill.
  • "I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself." — Gov. Butch Otter, speaking to a hunters' rally at the Statehouse.
  • "To get a kick out of smoking industrial hemp, it would take a cigar the size of a telephone pole." — Rep. Tom Trail (R-Moscow), downplaying the relation between hemp and its cousin marijuana
  • "I guess I would just make a plea saying we need the money. You know we need the money on roads." — Rep. JoAn Wood (R-Rigby), on proposed bill to collect gas tax from sales on Indian reservations.
  • "No one wants to carry the canoe bill." — Rep. Eric Anderson (R-Priest River), agreeing with Gov. Otter that non-motorized boats should also pay registration fees, but noting any such proposal will be a tough sell.
  • "I don't think we should let the threat of a lawsuit force us to implement something that's not well thought out." — Abbie Mace, Fremont County Clerk, testifying against a "modified-closed primary" bill being pushed by GOP leaders.
  • "There's a lot of things that I pointed out in my State of the State (address) that haven't passed. Unfortunately, I can't think of one that has." — Gov. Butch Otter, addressing reporters on the legislative session so far.
  • "I say let's have a hearing and take our clothes off and go after it." — Rep. Jim Clark, R-Hayden Lake, trying to get lawmakers to print his bill.
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